July 29, 2023 - 8:00am
A new survey reveals that only 55% of Gen Z and millennials plan to have children. One in four of those surveyed, aged between 18 and 34, has ruled out parenthood entirely, with the most common reason cited being “wanting time for themselves”.
Why this increasing need for more “me time”? A likely reason is that young people are now navigating an era of “extended adolescence”.
In recent decades, various shifts, from the rising cost of living to the expansion of higher education, have led to both millennials and Gen Z reaching traditional milestones much later than their predecessors. Millennials are living at home, as well as delaying marriage and procreation, in record numbers. Meanwhile, members of Gen Z are less likely to have experienced adult activities like going on a date, working for pay, learning to drive, or having sex, compared to teens in the preceding five decades. Given that many young adults still feel like children themselves, it’s no surprise that they are delaying or rejecting parenthood, choosing instead to extend their “me time”.
Modern culture also continually facilitates and encourages this extended adolescence. In our materialistic and individual-centred age, the pursuit of personal desires and self-discovery is often valued above all else, with traditional bonds seen as constraints.
Research by Professor Jean Twenge and her colleagues has examined the values of high school seniors from 1976 to 2006. They discovered that millennials are increasingly driven by extrinsic concerns such as money, fame and image, while moving away from intrinsic concerns like community and affiliation. These increasingly individualistic values likely contribute to younger generations’ adoption of a “slower life strategy”. Twenge observes that contemporary early adulthood now involves taking more time for self-exploration in one’s twenties, a pursuit not common in traditional collectivist societies.
Corporations, educational institutions and popular culture reinforce this cultural shift, capitalising on our prolonged adolescence. Take, for instance, the rise of therapy culture and a rapidly expanding trillion-dollar wellness market, which constantly encourage us to spend more money on ourselves, prioritise “me time” and cater to our “inner child”. Our infantilisation is indulged and commodified across various industries, from universities providing students with colouring books, bubbles and Play-Doh to the booming market for childlike activities and products such as “kidult” toys and adult Happy Meals.
While we now enjoy more freedoms and opportunities than previous generations, delaying adulthood and focusing on ourselves also come with significant consequences. Women especially face limited choices if they wait too long to have children. But delayed adulthood also comes at a cost for young men, many of whom feel increasingly lost and depressed with modern life. Contemporary culture keeps us all straddling a strange, intermediate state in which we face the pressures of adult life but are encouraged to cling to and prolong our “selfish years” as long as possible.
Yet with record levels of mental health problems, and a deepening sense of nihilism and disillusionment, perhaps what young people need is a culture that encourages responsibility, personal sacrifice, and commitments that stretch beyond self-indulgence and endless “me time”. Notably, numerous studies show that meeting the needs of others can better fulfil our psychological wellbeing than focusing solely on ourselves.
Not everyone needs to have children, but younger generations are being failed by a culture that places excessive emphasis on the individual, treats them like perpetual teenagers, and glamorises living in a liminal state of prolonged adolescence. As many of us flail through our twenties and thirties, trying to find meaning in the limitless freedoms and indulgences of modern life, some might one day realise, with regret, that we focused too much time on ourselves. Then, we’ll wonder what we may have missed.
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SubscribeEqually, one could have written this:
Why is it that people with children think being child-free is some kind of problem to be solved?
It’s not. We like it.
You think you like it. We know what liking life is really like.
He’s obviously very young.
Same again, what the child-free would say to parents:
He’s obviously very young.
Same again, what the child-free would say to parents:
Who’s going to look after you when you’re old?
That’s not a good enough reason to have children, and a bit of gamble to assume they would want to look after me.
A gamble? Not if you raise your children properly – but it sounds as if you would fail at that as well.
Somebody’s children are going to look after you.
Exactly. Parents who made sacrifices to raise their children are expected to then watch as their children’s life opportunities curtailed because they’re having to pay the ever growing tax bill to care for childless pensioners, who were financially advantaged all their lives as it is.
Exactly. Parents who made sacrifices to raise their children are expected to then watch as their children’s life opportunities curtailed because they’re having to pay the ever growing tax bill to care for childless pensioners, who were financially advantaged all their lives as it is.
They don’t do it directly, they do it through the increased tax burden on all young people to pay for the care of a generation of childless pensioners. When you don’t have kids someone else’s children pick up the tab.
That depends if you consider the wider picture. The child-free contribute all their lives to the system but don’t take anything out in the form of child education, health and welfare.
Not true at all. You received all those things as a child yourself. You are obliged to provide the same to the next generation in return. Also, all having less children does is lower the tax burden for your own generation, less children to educate, whilst raising it for the children who will follow, due to the negative effect it has on ratios of workers to dependants. All you’ve done is enriched yourself whilst passing the costs on to other peoples children and that’s before you take into account the non state supported costs of having children that are born solely by the parents.
It amazes me the number of people who believe the fallacy of “I didn’t have children so I’m actually paying more” when it’s nonsense if you understand how these entitlements are paid for.
Except if they get a personal pension like a 401k. You think people should be obligated to pump out children? The child free people will make more money so pay more taxes and also use a lot less of the social benefits. Many countries offer child related tax credits and benefits, parental leave, healthcare for children, family assistance programs, housing assistance for families, child nutrition programs, child support services, child tax credits and deduction, without kids child free individuals have time for more career advancement and earning potential, making more money means they’d pay more tax, childcare subsidies, public transport cost, special education services, criminal service cost as childfree individuals are less likely to engage with criminal justice system due to family related ussues potentially reducing strain on public safety services, lesser demand on social workers, subsidised school meal program, youth employment program, public assistance for larger families, regardless of whether you used these as a child, by not having children yourself you still lessen the cost of these things. You could argue not only have I enriched myself, which can then also lead to a personal pension, but ive cobtributed more taxes and used less social benefits and am more likely to be a higher skilled worker controbuting a rarer skill to the society. To suggest people are obligated to have children is just disgusting, in some eyes the thought of having children is a constant nightmare, even pretending like your logic is right, to try and force them into it because of the fault of the system is just sickening.
It’s clear higher earners are paying more taxes and being childfree clearly means using less taxes. Regardless, the system being “broken” shouldn’t matter, its a choice if you want children, no one is forcing your hand. Lower income people are much more likely to be on state pensions than higher earning individuals. To even suggest a broken system means its selfish to not have kids is in and of itself a very selfish outlook.
Except if they get a personal pension like a 401k. You think people should be obligated to pump out children? The child free people will make more money so pay more taxes and also use a lot less of the social benefits. Many countries offer child related tax credits and benefits, parental leave, healthcare for children, family assistance programs, housing assistance for families, child nutrition programs, child support services, child tax credits and deduction, without kids child free individuals have time for more career advancement and earning potential, making more money means they’d pay more tax, childcare subsidies, public transport cost, special education services, criminal service cost as childfree individuals are less likely to engage with criminal justice system due to family related ussues potentially reducing strain on public safety services, lesser demand on social workers, subsidised school meal program, youth employment program, public assistance for larger families, regardless of whether you used these as a child, by not having children yourself you still lessen the cost of these things. You could argue not only have I enriched myself, which can then also lead to a personal pension, but ive cobtributed more taxes and used less social benefits and am more likely to be a higher skilled worker controbuting a rarer skill to the society. To suggest people are obligated to have children is just disgusting, in some eyes the thought of having children is a constant nightmare, even pretending like your logic is right, to try and force them into it because of the fault of the system is just sickening.
It’s clear higher earners are paying more taxes and being childfree clearly means using less taxes. Regardless, the system being “broken” shouldn’t matter, its a choice if you want children, no one is forcing your hand. Lower income people are much more likely to be on state pensions than higher earning individuals. To even suggest a broken system means its selfish to not have kids is in and of itself a very selfish outlook.
Not true at all. You received all those things as a child yourself. You are obliged to provide the same to the next generation in return. Also, all having less children does is lower the tax burden for your own generation, less children to educate, whilst raising it for the children who will follow, due to the negative effect it has on ratios of workers to dependants. All you’ve done is enriched yourself whilst passing the costs on to other peoples children and that’s before you take into account the non state supported costs of having children that are born solely by the parents.
It amazes me the number of people who believe the fallacy of “I didn’t have children so I’m actually paying more” when it’s nonsense if you understand how these entitlements are paid for.
Fair enough, as those people picked up the tab to pay for your children’s schooling and healthcare, even if they don’t amount to anything close to productive citizens. No one will go through life without paying for someone else’s life choices, thaťs the deal with living in society.
True but the current system is so inequitable to younger generations that I’m not surprised how radicalised they are becoming. Having children is a social and economic good yet we gift all the incentives to those who don’t have them, which solely benefits them as individuals, whilst the community bares the costs.
True but the current system is so inequitable to younger generations that I’m not surprised how radicalised they are becoming. Having children is a social and economic good yet we gift all the incentives to those who don’t have them, which solely benefits them as individuals, whilst the community bares the costs.
That depends if you consider the wider picture. The child-free contribute all their lives to the system but don’t take anything out in the form of child education, health and welfare.
Fair enough, as those people picked up the tab to pay for your children’s schooling and healthcare, even if they don’t amount to anything close to productive citizens. No one will go through life without paying for someone else’s life choices, thaťs the deal with living in society.
A gamble? Not if you raise your children properly – but it sounds as if you would fail at that as well.
Somebody’s children are going to look after you.
They don’t do it directly, they do it through the increased tax burden on all young people to pay for the care of a generation of childless pensioners. When you don’t have kids someone else’s children pick up the tab.
Nurses and care professionals, as it is already the case for old people nowadays. That these old people almost always have children should give you pause for thought.
Richard, for the past year I have cared for my dad with dementia. I thank the HEAVENS that I will never put an offspring through that. It is selfless work, caring for parents in old age, and one I will never put another through. When the time comes, I will be in a nursing home, and that is far for moral to me.
A luxury nursing home I saved with all that money I didn’t waste on kids. You understand by that age your kids will be parents, they don’t have time to look after you too, so many elders go to the nursing homes. Either way why are you trying to make this poor guy have kids, if the thought of raising children wasn’t horrible enough he’d also have less free time, financially worse off, retire later, less sleep, less vacations, less financial opportunities, ondtantly tired, it’s not even like these things outweighs a kid, it’s that some people hate the idea of having a child. The lovely stress free life he’ll lead with excess money and freetime, I wouldn’t be surprised if they stay healthy that they’ll even need to be looked after anywhere near the same age as you.
That’s not a good enough reason to have children, and a bit of gamble to assume they would want to look after me.
Nurses and care professionals, as it is already the case for old people nowadays. That these old people almost always have children should give you pause for thought.
Richard, for the past year I have cared for my dad with dementia. I thank the HEAVENS that I will never put an offspring through that. It is selfless work, caring for parents in old age, and one I will never put another through. When the time comes, I will be in a nursing home, and that is far for moral to me.
A luxury nursing home I saved with all that money I didn’t waste on kids. You understand by that age your kids will be parents, they don’t have time to look after you too, so many elders go to the nursing homes. Either way why are you trying to make this poor guy have kids, if the thought of raising children wasn’t horrible enough he’d also have less free time, financially worse off, retire later, less sleep, less vacations, less financial opportunities, ondtantly tired, it’s not even like these things outweighs a kid, it’s that some people hate the idea of having a child. The lovely stress free life he’ll lead with excess money and freetime, I wouldn’t be surprised if they stay healthy that they’ll even need to be looked after anywhere near the same age as you.
“It’s not. We like it.”
Of course you do. Your generation exists in a state of arrested emotional development – perpetual kittenhood.
And yours exists in a state of perpetual entitlement, expecting the youngsters to fund your retirement and end of life care despite you doing your best to make their lives as difficult as possible
How on earth do you you construe that from my comment? When I am too old to look after myself I will die. (Possibly sooner!) Same for you – don’t kid yourself.
As for youngsters looking after me – I am looking after them. I don’t begrudge them, but how that makes me entitled is something that you will have to explain.
Edit: I get downvotes, but no arguments. How curious.
How on earth do you you construe that from my comment? When I am too old to look after myself I will die. (Possibly sooner!) Same for you – don’t kid yourself.
As for youngsters looking after me – I am looking after them. I don’t begrudge them, but how that makes me entitled is something that you will have to explain.
Edit: I get downvotes, but no arguments. How curious.
““The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders”- Socrates 400 BC…..come ON can we stop the cycle of trash talking the younger generation.
Socrates was a seriously smart guy – Until he pushed his luck a bit too far.
How intelligent, a mass generalisation of millions based on what I can only assume is your own personal bias, lack of personal experience.
God only knows why you don’t love luxury, I’m sorry if it’s surprising to you that there are people that don’t want to work extremely hard and have very little to show for it.
Older work cultures place a high value on being physically present in the office for long hours, equating time spent with dedication and commitment, it’s known as presenteeism and leads to a culture where individuals feel the need to stay late or work excessively regugardless of their actual productivity or output. Your generations focus on numbers of hours worked over quality and have created an extremely toxic work mindset. You generations has been exploited, brainwashed and overworked and has so little to show for it. Where as your employer got nearly everything.
Thanks for demonstrating your mass ignorance, and never changing view on the world around you, your generation is stuck in that generation, not a single new idea, concern or change will ever get through your numbed minds.
Socrates was a seriously smart guy – Until he pushed his luck a bit too far.
How intelligent, a mass generalisation of millions based on what I can only assume is your own personal bias, lack of personal experience.
God only knows why you don’t love luxury, I’m sorry if it’s surprising to you that there are people that don’t want to work extremely hard and have very little to show for it.
Older work cultures place a high value on being physically present in the office for long hours, equating time spent with dedication and commitment, it’s known as presenteeism and leads to a culture where individuals feel the need to stay late or work excessively regugardless of their actual productivity or output. Your generations focus on numbers of hours worked over quality and have created an extremely toxic work mindset. You generations has been exploited, brainwashed and overworked and has so little to show for it. Where as your employer got nearly everything.
Thanks for demonstrating your mass ignorance, and never changing view on the world around you, your generation is stuck in that generation, not a single new idea, concern or change will ever get through your numbed minds.
And yours exists in a state of perpetual entitlement, expecting the youngsters to fund your retirement and end of life care despite you doing your best to make their lives as difficult as possible
““The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders”- Socrates 400 BC…..come ON can we stop the cycle of trash talking the younger generation.
Your kind cannot die off fast enough. They should discontinue old age pensions because it leads to childlessness and a nihilistic self-centered population.
It’s quite a revelation that this post gets to be the most upvoted comment to this article. To me it serves to confirm that the problem is real, and indeed the underlying problem is the foolish hedonist ideology prevalent in the West today.
Ironically, the Unherd forum is highly opposed to mass migration but extremely supportive of childless boomers. Yet can’t seem to discern any contradiction between the two.
Ironically, the Unherd forum is highly opposed to mass migration but extremely supportive of childless boomers. Yet can’t seem to discern any contradiction between the two.
Helen Mirren: “I love children, they are so funny and sweet, but I never wanted my own, I have never had a moment of regret about not having children. Well, I lie. When I watched the movie, Parenthood, I sobbed for about 20 minutes. I realized I would never experience that, and for about 20 minutes, I sobbed for the loss of that and the fact that I never experienced it.
Then I got over it and I was happy again.”
Having children is literally the meaning of life
I think I just threw up in a my mouth
Where else would you throw up?
He is of course, literally, right. No reproduction means no life.
Where else would you throw up?
He is of course, literally, right. No reproduction means no life.
I think I just threw up in a my mouth
As an octogenarian I bump into some of my ‘cohort’ who watch me waving-off my Son and Grandsons and wished they could do the same. Kids are not for everybody but many have been too selfish timewise and are now reaping the sorrow of childlessness. It’s often very hard work with little or no thanks and it’s great being able to hand the grandkids back at the end of playtme. If they are not careful I could be watching over my first great, bundle of “joy and sorrows” very soon. I’ve got something worth looking forward to in my upper-middle-age.
I wish my kids would hurry up and present me with some grandchildren!
I wish my kids would hurry up and present me with some grandchildren!
Yes, you like it. It’s not all about what you like.
“Why is it that people with children think being child-free is some kind of problem to be solved?”
Does it concern you at all, Robbie, that we seem to have created a society over the last several hundred years that is un-breeding itself out of existence? Birth rates across the western world are below replacement rates and falling.
Does it concern you that your attitude regarding reproduction seems to indicate an attitude of what our ancestors created just doesn’t seem to be worth maintaining?
And, yes – immigration from rapidly reproducing regions of the globe can replace physical persons. But, as an American, I worry about the philosophical ideas that my country was founded upon. Primarily, the importance of a written constitution guaranteeing each individual’s rights. Like a religion, the philosophical underpinnings of a society are only maintained by the people who feel a connection to its tenets, who understand the importance of rights and limitations of governments or kings or sheiks.
I put it to you – do you believe the freedoms and rights we enjoy as westerners, if not Americans, will survive the importation of millions of people from places that think something like the idea of free speech – from what I can tell is only guaranteed via a written constitution in America – is something worth preserving?
I think you are not thinking far enough forward regarding this dilemma which I call the west un-breeding itself out of existence.
Do you seriously think freedom is an American-only idea or is the only country with a constitution for that matter? Do you think that immigrants moving from places without any sort of constitution or freedom aren’t here for exactly THAT reason? It’s ridiculous to assume that the west is the last bastion of the very common value of freedom.
It’s also not like immigrants can’t be taught those values and philosophies either. Believe it or not information and morals can be passed down to younger generations by people OUTSIDE of their own bloodline. We have an entire institution dedicated to it in fact, called the education system.
But let’s face it schools don’t teach the importance of our constitutional rights, that’s got nothing to do with immigration though.
Do you seriously think freedom is an American-only idea or is the only country with a constitution for that matter? Do you think that immigrants moving from places without any sort of constitution or freedom aren’t here for exactly THAT reason? It’s ridiculous to assume that the west is the last bastion of the very common value of freedom.
It’s also not like immigrants can’t be taught those values and philosophies either. Believe it or not information and morals can be passed down to younger generations by people OUTSIDE of their own bloodline. We have an entire institution dedicated to it in fact, called the education system.
But let’s face it schools don’t teach the importance of our constitutional rights, that’s got nothing to do with immigration though.
You think you like it. We know what liking life is really like.
Who’s going to look after you when you’re old?
“It’s not. We like it.”
Of course you do. Your generation exists in a state of arrested emotional development – perpetual kittenhood.
Your kind cannot die off fast enough. They should discontinue old age pensions because it leads to childlessness and a nihilistic self-centered population.
It’s quite a revelation that this post gets to be the most upvoted comment to this article. To me it serves to confirm that the problem is real, and indeed the underlying problem is the foolish hedonist ideology prevalent in the West today.
Helen Mirren: “I love children, they are so funny and sweet, but I never wanted my own, I have never had a moment of regret about not having children. Well, I lie. When I watched the movie, Parenthood, I sobbed for about 20 minutes. I realized I would never experience that, and for about 20 minutes, I sobbed for the loss of that and the fact that I never experienced it.
Then I got over it and I was happy again.”
Having children is literally the meaning of life
As an octogenarian I bump into some of my ‘cohort’ who watch me waving-off my Son and Grandsons and wished they could do the same. Kids are not for everybody but many have been too selfish timewise and are now reaping the sorrow of childlessness. It’s often very hard work with little or no thanks and it’s great being able to hand the grandkids back at the end of playtme. If they are not careful I could be watching over my first great, bundle of “joy and sorrows” very soon. I’ve got something worth looking forward to in my upper-middle-age.
Yes, you like it. It’s not all about what you like.
“Why is it that people with children think being child-free is some kind of problem to be solved?”
Does it concern you at all, Robbie, that we seem to have created a society over the last several hundred years that is un-breeding itself out of existence? Birth rates across the western world are below replacement rates and falling.
Does it concern you that your attitude regarding reproduction seems to indicate an attitude of what our ancestors created just doesn’t seem to be worth maintaining?
And, yes – immigration from rapidly reproducing regions of the globe can replace physical persons. But, as an American, I worry about the philosophical ideas that my country was founded upon. Primarily, the importance of a written constitution guaranteeing each individual’s rights. Like a religion, the philosophical underpinnings of a society are only maintained by the people who feel a connection to its tenets, who understand the importance of rights and limitations of governments or kings or sheiks.
I put it to you – do you believe the freedoms and rights we enjoy as westerners, if not Americans, will survive the importation of millions of people from places that think something like the idea of free speech – from what I can tell is only guaranteed via a written constitution in America – is something worth preserving?
I think you are not thinking far enough forward regarding this dilemma which I call the west un-breeding itself out of existence.
Equally, one could have written this:
Why is it that people with children think being child-free is some kind of problem to be solved?
It’s not. We like it.
I don’t blame young people for not wanting children, in fact I could quite understand it if when presented with this argument, they were to react furiously and ask us how the hell they could even think about that when not only can most of them not afford a mortgage deposit, many of them can barely afford even a rental deposit.
Raising children is ruinously expensive and anyone who embarks on it without a good idea of how to afford it is a fool. And yes I know that many people jump right in without a thought because they think the government will pay for it all, but firstly they’re wrong, it doesn’t, and secondly even if it did the rest of us would be disgusted at the attitude of entitlement anyway.
So anyway, let’s not have this be one more thing we’re heaping on the heads of people under 35. They’ve enough to cope with already.
Jean Twenge deals with this at length in “Generations”. The numbers are there. In summary “feeling poor instead of being poor”. One specfic item – going to university delays the start of earning income.
I really think the system with so many going to university is going to prove to be unsustainable. It’s not been good for young people or universities. It is going to be a major shock though to the institutions which have expanded their infrastructure to massive proportions.
I really think the system with so many going to university is going to prove to be unsustainable. It’s not been good for young people or universities. It is going to be a major shock though to the institutions which have expanded their infrastructure to massive proportions.
The state seems to pay for the children of people whose IQ’s are below 83. These are the only Europeans who have above replacement fertility.
Reminds me, when pregnant with a third child my grandmother asked her doctor for an abortion. The family was very poor and she believed they could not afford another child. (This was rural Montana USA @ 1940.) To his credit the doctor refused and they had and raised the child. The family remained poor. The child went on to become a pharmacist and owned his own pharmacy in rural Montana for many years. He is now retired with two grown sons and living in a lovely neighborhood in a pretty town in a beautiful part of Montana. So much for not being able to afford a child.
Jean Twenge deals with this at length in “Generations”. The numbers are there. In summary “feeling poor instead of being poor”. One specfic item – going to university delays the start of earning income.
The state seems to pay for the children of people whose IQ’s are below 83. These are the only Europeans who have above replacement fertility.
Reminds me, when pregnant with a third child my grandmother asked her doctor for an abortion. The family was very poor and she believed they could not afford another child. (This was rural Montana USA @ 1940.) To his credit the doctor refused and they had and raised the child. The family remained poor. The child went on to become a pharmacist and owned his own pharmacy in rural Montana for many years. He is now retired with two grown sons and living in a lovely neighborhood in a pretty town in a beautiful part of Montana. So much for not being able to afford a child.
I don’t blame young people for not wanting children, in fact I could quite understand it if when presented with this argument, they were to react furiously and ask us how the hell they could even think about that when not only can most of them not afford a mortgage deposit, many of them can barely afford even a rental deposit.
Raising children is ruinously expensive and anyone who embarks on it without a good idea of how to afford it is a fool. And yes I know that many people jump right in without a thought because they think the government will pay for it all, but firstly they’re wrong, it doesn’t, and secondly even if it did the rest of us would be disgusted at the attitude of entitlement anyway.
So anyway, let’s not have this be one more thing we’re heaping on the heads of people under 35. They’ve enough to cope with already.
My daughter does want children, she just doesn’t want to bring them up here, in the UK. She recognises that children need boundaries and structure and positive adult influences. What she has seen, working with children, are parents who have little time and patience for their own offspring and leave them to run feral and, in turn, influencing their peers. It’s like Lord of the flies! Couple that with social media fad contagion on issues such as transgenderism and the future isn’t pretty.
Your daughter is in a minority.
Half of all women under 30 are now childless and 20 percent are childless at 45, i.e. permanently. Current trends predict almost half of all women will be permanently childless by the end on this decade, just 7 years from now. Mental illness, depression and loneliness among 45 year old women with no children and another 45 years to live is expected to rise exponentially.
Is she aware that most other countries in Europe are further along this path than the UK?
Seems like a wild assumption, unless there is a medical reason for being childless. Women who have chosen to be child free may well just be enjoying themselves without the burden of raising a family.
Maybe, maybe not, but all the data supports it and it’s mental health professionals who are providing these warnings. Admittedly they have their own agenda but they are not entirely self serving.
I think William is being given a hard time here! We are all of us trying to decipher a phenomenon that is clearly real and which we don’t yet understand!
I think William is being given a hard time here! We are all of us trying to decipher a phenomenon that is clearly real and which we don’t yet understand!
Yeah, as a woman who just turned 40 without any desire to have kids (and partnered with someone who never did, either) – it’s not something I regret in the slightest.
I see my brother with kids and his life seems hellish to me (largely because he has a very severe case of OCD which he imposes tyrannically on everyone around him, but I digress).
I love living in a peaceful, pleasant environment with my partner. It’s just not something I pontificate much about. It may be that people who regret their choices tend to talk about them more than those who are simply content – so you end up hearing from them more often.
Maybe I just don’t associate family life with happiness (that’s why my partner and I moved in together quite young) – and having now built a life I am pretty happy with, adding another person (and possibly upsetting the balance) has never felt necessary or desirable to me (or said partner whose family life was much worse than mine).
Anyhow – the rhetoric of sad childless women with empty lives does not resonate with me at all. I am also not too keen on the push to convince more people into parenthood who may regret it, given my experience with unhappy families.
I am a similar age to you and never wanted children, neither does my partner. I have had mental illness since my teens and never wanted to impose my crappy genes and disposition onto anyone else. There are far too many crappy parents out there raising crappy children and I did not want to add to the mess.
Most people I come across are dysfunctional, yet they live under the illusion that having a job you hate, living in an area you don’t like somehow makes you a better person because you are sacrificing your happiness for others. The problem is their children are unlikely to be grateful as they will have grown up in an environment where they are raised by unhappy, uninspiring adults.
I am a similar age to you and never wanted children, neither does my partner. I have had mental illness since my teens and never wanted to impose my crappy genes and disposition onto anyone else. There are far too many crappy parents out there raising crappy children and I did not want to add to the mess.
Most people I come across are dysfunctional, yet they live under the illusion that having a job you hate, living in an area you don’t like somehow makes you a better person because you are sacrificing your happiness for others. The problem is their children are unlikely to be grateful as they will have grown up in an environment where they are raised by unhappy, uninspiring adults.
Maybe, maybe not, but all the data supports it and it’s mental health professionals who are providing these warnings. Admittedly they have their own agenda but they are not entirely self serving.
Yeah, as a woman who just turned 40 without any desire to have kids (and partnered with someone who never did, either) – it’s not something I regret in the slightest.
I see my brother with kids and his life seems hellish to me (largely because he has a very severe case of OCD which he imposes tyrannically on everyone around him, but I digress).
I love living in a peaceful, pleasant environment with my partner. It’s just not something I pontificate much about. It may be that people who regret their choices tend to talk about them more than those who are simply content – so you end up hearing from them more often.
Maybe I just don’t associate family life with happiness (that’s why my partner and I moved in together quite young) – and having now built a life I am pretty happy with, adding another person (and possibly upsetting the balance) has never felt necessary or desirable to me (or said partner whose family life was much worse than mine).
Anyhow – the rhetoric of sad childless women with empty lives does not resonate with me at all. I am also not too keen on the push to convince more people into parenthood who may regret it, given my experience with unhappy families.
Seems like a wild assumption, unless there is a medical reason for being childless. Women who have chosen to be child free may well just be enjoying themselves without the burden of raising a family.
I’d genuinely be interested to know where your daughter considers to be a more suitable choice to raise a child. It’s not perfect, but I love the UK.
She is a realist, she knows that she has to experience other countries and cultures, which will help her make an informed decision and upping sticks and moving is not particularly easy. She is also aware that there is no such thing as a perfect place to raise children. At the moment though, she struggles with the cons of the U.K. as I mentioned in my initial post. Chances are, she may find herself stuck here and then have to rethink her intentions or at least find ways to mitigate the problems. Hopefully things may improve before her biological clock ticks its last tock although, to be fair, she is still young enough.
Wise plan, and you have to do it for yourself. I left the UK at 25 and had no plans to return, but after extensive travelling eventually realised being on holiday is not the same as living in a place, and turns out UK (England) is actually a mighty fine place to be. Most of the time.
I agree even though I have lived the last 25 years in the US. The problem is the UK is now a political, military, economic, and cultural satellite of the US. I just love our houses, our countryside, our antiquity and our sense of a shared community, however complicated it is
Actually we Americans do too!
Actually we Americans do too!
I agree even though I have lived the last 25 years in the US. The problem is the UK is now a political, military, economic, and cultural satellite of the US. I just love our houses, our countryside, our antiquity and our sense of a shared community, however complicated it is
Wise plan, and you have to do it for yourself. I left the UK at 25 and had no plans to return, but after extensive travelling eventually realised being on holiday is not the same as living in a place, and turns out UK (England) is actually a mighty fine place to be. Most of the time.
She is a realist, she knows that she has to experience other countries and cultures, which will help her make an informed decision and upping sticks and moving is not particularly easy. She is also aware that there is no such thing as a perfect place to raise children. At the moment though, she struggles with the cons of the U.K. as I mentioned in my initial post. Chances are, she may find herself stuck here and then have to rethink her intentions or at least find ways to mitigate the problems. Hopefully things may improve before her biological clock ticks its last tock although, to be fair, she is still young enough.
You are part of the parents in UK she is talking about. You do realize that…right?
Your daughter is in a minority.
Half of all women under 30 are now childless and 20 percent are childless at 45, i.e. permanently. Current trends predict almost half of all women will be permanently childless by the end on this decade, just 7 years from now. Mental illness, depression and loneliness among 45 year old women with no children and another 45 years to live is expected to rise exponentially.
Is she aware that most other countries in Europe are further along this path than the UK?
I’d genuinely be interested to know where your daughter considers to be a more suitable choice to raise a child. It’s not perfect, but I love the UK.
You are part of the parents in UK she is talking about. You do realize that…right?
My daughter does want children, she just doesn’t want to bring them up here, in the UK. She recognises that children need boundaries and structure and positive adult influences. What she has seen, working with children, are parents who have little time and patience for their own offspring and leave them to run feral and, in turn, influencing their peers. It’s like Lord of the flies! Couple that with social media fad contagion on issues such as transgenderism and the future isn’t pretty.
Really sick of reading this kind of judgmental, moralising nonsense. There is nothing selfish, infantile or individualist about not having children you can’t afford. Seems to me the same people sneering at young adults for “selfishly” not cramming babies into their 1 bed rental while struggling to afford groceries are the same people who’d be sneering about “benefits scroungers” with “too many children” a few short years ago.
Poverty is just an excuse. Not able to afford them? The state pays for the borderline idiots to have children. It’s all about preserving the lifestyle, man!
Poverty is just an excuse. Not able to afford them? The state pays for the borderline idiots to have children. It’s all about preserving the lifestyle, man!
Really sick of reading this kind of judgmental, moralising nonsense. There is nothing selfish, infantile or individualist about not having children you can’t afford. Seems to me the same people sneering at young adults for “selfishly” not cramming babies into their 1 bed rental while struggling to afford groceries are the same people who’d be sneering about “benefits scroungers” with “too many children” a few short years ago.
The article and comments fail to recognize that GenZ saw and experienced the reprocussions of people that should not have been parents having kids. Maybe they don’t want to repeat those mistakes. It’s better to have a smaller generation of healthy functioning well-loved children than a larger generation of unhinged, poorly raised, mentally unstable ones.
This generation is not healthy and well-functioning. It’s sick, mentally and judging by all the obesity, it’s physically sick as well.
My mum died when I was 11 and I was raised by a mentally ill father on benefits. We were immigrants and my life was full of trauma. I have four kids now and in no way do I see myself as some kind of redraft where I avoid the mistakes my parents made. Life has always been difficult and trauma is part of life and growth and strength and joy are just as real as suffering and mental illness. I am healthy and functioning now, and I am still someone who makes plenty of mistakes and my children will have traumas regardless of how healthy and functioning I am, I was unhinged, poorly raised and mentally unstable but I was also well raised, well loved and mentally resilient. I’m astonished at the relentlessness with which my peers suggest there’s a clear dichotomy between a life worth living and a worthless life, atypical and neurotypical, happy or suicidal, healthy or unhinged. If there’s one thing I’ve learnt from having children is that we are all broken and whole and we are not here to function we are here to live.
This generation is not healthy and well-functioning. It’s sick, mentally and judging by all the obesity, it’s physically sick as well.
My mum died when I was 11 and I was raised by a mentally ill father on benefits. We were immigrants and my life was full of trauma. I have four kids now and in no way do I see myself as some kind of redraft where I avoid the mistakes my parents made. Life has always been difficult and trauma is part of life and growth and strength and joy are just as real as suffering and mental illness. I am healthy and functioning now, and I am still someone who makes plenty of mistakes and my children will have traumas regardless of how healthy and functioning I am, I was unhinged, poorly raised and mentally unstable but I was also well raised, well loved and mentally resilient. I’m astonished at the relentlessness with which my peers suggest there’s a clear dichotomy between a life worth living and a worthless life, atypical and neurotypical, happy or suicidal, healthy or unhinged. If there’s one thing I’ve learnt from having children is that we are all broken and whole and we are not here to function we are here to live.
The article and comments fail to recognize that GenZ saw and experienced the reprocussions of people that should not have been parents having kids. Maybe they don’t want to repeat those mistakes. It’s better to have a smaller generation of healthy functioning well-loved children than a larger generation of unhinged, poorly raised, mentally unstable ones.
I’ve said before that having children is no fun but having had children is the best.
Perhaps deferred gratification is no longer so attractive?
Yes. I don’t see what the author and others around here find so difficult to understand. Since not having children became not only a possibility, but an acceptable choice, you’d have to work hard to convince people that it’s worth doing. It should come as no surprise that many people don’t see the attraction when they actually think about it – instead of just doing what they were supposed to, as our forebears had always done.
I always wanted children. And I think my life is better for it. I can’t imagine being 34 and childless. I have a rewarding job and social life but my life’s ultimate meaning is derived from the work of raising my family. It is hard work but I think it’s odd not to find any reward and satisfaction in hard work.
I always wanted children. And I think my life is better for it. I can’t imagine being 34 and childless. I have a rewarding job and social life but my life’s ultimate meaning is derived from the work of raising my family. It is hard work but I think it’s odd not to find any reward and satisfaction in hard work.
I don’t have kids myself but from what I’ve observed of those who do, you’re right, it’s kind of like a costly spiritual investment that takes 20 years or so to pay off and then the benefits start coming.
The issue though is that before you can make that spiritual investment, you have to be in a material position to start, and it now takes far longer to establish the material stability required.
The benefits are there right away in the delivery room when you look into the eyes of your newborn.
How does this comment get down voted? Now despite all the vigorous and sometimes unhinged rhetoric on both sides, I really don’t see why this comment gets a negative press.
Because it’s completely subjective, they think it’s worth it because they want kids, so to say the benefits are x when x only applies if you want the kids is a pretty silly argument.
Because it’s completely subjective, they think it’s worth it because they want kids, so to say the benefits are x when x only applies if you want the kids is a pretty silly argument.
How does this comment get down voted? Now despite all the vigorous and sometimes unhinged rhetoric on both sides, I really don’t see why this comment gets a negative press.
The benefits are there right away in the delivery room when you look into the eyes of your newborn.
Yes. I don’t see what the author and others around here find so difficult to understand. Since not having children became not only a possibility, but an acceptable choice, you’d have to work hard to convince people that it’s worth doing. It should come as no surprise that many people don’t see the attraction when they actually think about it – instead of just doing what they were supposed to, as our forebears had always done.
I don’t have kids myself but from what I’ve observed of those who do, you’re right, it’s kind of like a costly spiritual investment that takes 20 years or so to pay off and then the benefits start coming.
The issue though is that before you can make that spiritual investment, you have to be in a material position to start, and it now takes far longer to establish the material stability required.
I’ve said before that having children is no fun but having had children is the best.
Perhaps deferred gratification is no longer so attractive?
What a poorly written and researched article. The basis of the author’s premise is that Gen Z is too selfish to have children which is backed by a “Survey”. The link to the “Survey” takes one to a Sunday times subscription based article, not the actual survey results themselves. There is no robust substantiation provided, thereby creating a false premise.
A Newsweek poll of 1500 American adults between the ages of 18 and 34 actually suggests that Gen Z would consider having children if the cost of living was lower. https://www.newsweek.com/gen-z-millennials-put-off-having-children-same-reason-1794231
In the UK the median house price is $290,000 and the median wage is $20,997, meaning that the price of a house is 14 times the median wage. In 1980 the median house price was $20,997 and the median wage was $6,000, meaning house prices were only 3.5 times the median wage.
The cost of living has risen substantially over the past 40 years and Gen Z are simply making a sensible choice to not have children they cannot afford. The depiction of Gen Z being selfish and narrcistic is false and continues to be perpetuated by lazy writers who do not posses the intellect or attention span to write about a topic of substance and importance.
What a poorly written and researched article. The basis of the author’s premise is that Gen Z is too selfish to have children which is backed by a “Survey”. The link to the “Survey” takes one to a Sunday times subscription based article, not the actual survey results themselves. There is no robust substantiation provided, thereby creating a false premise.
A Newsweek poll of 1500 American adults between the ages of 18 and 34 actually suggests that Gen Z would consider having children if the cost of living was lower. https://www.newsweek.com/gen-z-millennials-put-off-having-children-same-reason-1794231
In the UK the median house price is $290,000 and the median wage is $20,997, meaning that the price of a house is 14 times the median wage. In 1980 the median house price was $20,997 and the median wage was $6,000, meaning house prices were only 3.5 times the median wage.
The cost of living has risen substantially over the past 40 years and Gen Z are simply making a sensible choice to not have children they cannot afford. The depiction of Gen Z being selfish and narrcistic is false and continues to be perpetuated by lazy writers who do not posses the intellect or attention span to write about a topic of substance and importance.
I went on a training course years back and the trainer had a never-ending supply of sweets and silly plastic toys to get us through it. Just as if we were toddlers. I was amazed but everyone else seemed to think that this was normal.
Gen Z? Or has the trend towards infantilism been going rather longer?
I think that, as with so much else, this goes back to the counterculture of the 60’s and a rejection of everything that went before it. We’ve just been going through repeated cycles of this. Now is like a re-run of the 70’s in some ways but each reiteration wears away more of the foundations. Surely everything will collapse in the end. Wasn’t that the original idea ?
“Surely everything will collapse in the end.”
Yes, and quite literally in fact. Many of our infrastructure networks require to be 100% operational to work, you can’t just chose to only use 50% of it and leave the rest to rot without it bringing down the whole system. Rapid population decline will leave us with too few people, with too much to maintain, on top of the all the problems of a greying society.
“Surely everything will collapse in the end.”
Yes, and quite literally in fact. Many of our infrastructure networks require to be 100% operational to work, you can’t just chose to only use 50% of it and leave the rest to rot without it bringing down the whole system. Rapid population decline will leave us with too few people, with too much to maintain, on top of the all the problems of a greying society.
I think that, as with so much else, this goes back to the counterculture of the 60’s and a rejection of everything that went before it. We’ve just been going through repeated cycles of this. Now is like a re-run of the 70’s in some ways but each reiteration wears away more of the foundations. Surely everything will collapse in the end. Wasn’t that the original idea ?
Gen Z? Or has the trend towards infantilism been going rather longer?
I went on a training course years back and the trainer had a never-ending supply of sweets and silly plastic toys to get us through it. Just as if we were toddlers. I was amazed but everyone else seemed to think that this was normal.
This has been a long time coming. It’s really with the 60s that youth came to be preferred over adulthood, and the activities of youth over those of being grown up.
it’s not wholly bad. It has perhaps removed some of the stolid resignation over ageing. If older people are being active, keeping fit and enjoying life, that’s great.
But an increasing number seem to be just reverting to teenhood once their own children have left. It’s the only vision of the good life they seem to have. It even seems to play a significant role in divorce – returning to dating and disco in your 50s and 60s not as adults but as born again teens.
I am experiencing this right now. After 19 years, my spouse said she’s done. She wants to be “unconstrained by a marriage so [she] can have what she sees in the movies, and so [she] can focus on [her] happiness.”
We have two small children, and multiple houses and we had plans for the future, yet she doesn’t wish to work or be married anymore, even though she’s 44 and been a professional for the last 18 years earning more than me for much of it due to her qualifications.
I understand the feeling of FOMO, but it’s extraordinarily unfair to change so wildly midstream and show no remorse or concern as to how your actions affect the others in your life. I didn’t really want to start dating again in my late 40s.
So sad! She needs to have her hormones checked! How could she give up so much!?! How could she just walk away from her children and her husband that loves her?!? And how can she just not work? She will get really lonely and depressed once she puts her plan into place. She will see the error of her ways. My sympathies to you.
So sad! She needs to have her hormones checked! How could she give up so much!?! How could she just walk away from her children and her husband that loves her?!? And how can she just not work? She will get really lonely and depressed once she puts her plan into place. She will see the error of her ways. My sympathies to you.
I am experiencing this right now. After 19 years, my spouse said she’s done. She wants to be “unconstrained by a marriage so [she] can have what she sees in the movies, and so [she] can focus on [her] happiness.”
We have two small children, and multiple houses and we had plans for the future, yet she doesn’t wish to work or be married anymore, even though she’s 44 and been a professional for the last 18 years earning more than me for much of it due to her qualifications.
I understand the feeling of FOMO, but it’s extraordinarily unfair to change so wildly midstream and show no remorse or concern as to how your actions affect the others in your life. I didn’t really want to start dating again in my late 40s.
This has been a long time coming. It’s really with the 60s that youth came to be preferred over adulthood, and the activities of youth over those of being grown up.
it’s not wholly bad. It has perhaps removed some of the stolid resignation over ageing. If older people are being active, keeping fit and enjoying life, that’s great.
But an increasing number seem to be just reverting to teenhood once their own children have left. It’s the only vision of the good life they seem to have. It even seems to play a significant role in divorce – returning to dating and disco in your 50s and 60s not as adults but as born again teens.
I didn’t want children because I disliked the culture surrounding parenthood and children when I grew up. I’m very glad I stuck to my decision. Almost all my parental friends are digging into their retirement pot in order to support their adult children who in turn blame their helplessness on their parents for not teaching them vital life skills.
I didn’t want children because I disliked the culture surrounding parenthood and children when I grew up. I’m very glad I stuck to my decision. Almost all my parental friends are digging into their retirement pot in order to support their adult children who in turn blame their helplessness on their parents for not teaching them vital life skills.
I’m a 34 year old millennial with four kids; had the first at 27. I always knew I wanted children before I turned 30 but I was alone among my peer friendship group. I never chose to have children for any lifestyle related reasons, I just knew I wanted them and I felt a lot of pressure to focus on career and to hide from male partners that I was in a hurry to start a family. Luckily my husband was on the same page. I don’t really buy any of the reasons cited, I think people just conform to whatever the dominant expectation is and for me it was definitely not the done thing to get married in your twenties and to have a family before establishing yourself in your career post university. I think all the reasons cited are retrospectively given because you have to justify the fact that you’ve somehow ended up without kids (which is what will happen if you don’t actively swim upstream). I don’t think anyone is actively making a choice with positive agency, they’re just following the crowd and then pretending it was a conscious decision.
35 with our first on the way (Wife is 30). I’ve wanted kids since I started dating, just made some bad choices about who I dated (copy of the abusive mother, raging feminist, afraid of commitment) before my wife.
I was definitely in the minority in my peer group. I got some funny looks when I brought up children on the second date but going without was a deal-breaker for me and I didn’t want to waste any more time than I already had – I may not have been on a biological clock but my acceptably-aged dating pool sure was!
Time was people understood that rights and privileges are what you get by taking on responsibilities. Nowadays that’s not true any more and people think the wonders of modernity have always existed and always will. Nope. We stand on the shoulders of giants who got up in the morning and decided to build a better world for future generations. We owe it to them to do the same.
35 with our first on the way (Wife is 30). I’ve wanted kids since I started dating, just made some bad choices about who I dated (copy of the abusive mother, raging feminist, afraid of commitment) before my wife.
I was definitely in the minority in my peer group. I got some funny looks when I brought up children on the second date but going without was a deal-breaker for me and I didn’t want to waste any more time than I already had – I may not have been on a biological clock but my acceptably-aged dating pool sure was!
Time was people understood that rights and privileges are what you get by taking on responsibilities. Nowadays that’s not true any more and people think the wonders of modernity have always existed and always will. Nope. We stand on the shoulders of giants who got up in the morning and decided to build a better world for future generations. We owe it to them to do the same.
I’m a 34 year old millennial with four kids; had the first at 27. I always knew I wanted children before I turned 30 but I was alone among my peer friendship group. I never chose to have children for any lifestyle related reasons, I just knew I wanted them and I felt a lot of pressure to focus on career and to hide from male partners that I was in a hurry to start a family. Luckily my husband was on the same page. I don’t really buy any of the reasons cited, I think people just conform to whatever the dominant expectation is and for me it was definitely not the done thing to get married in your twenties and to have a family before establishing yourself in your career post university. I think all the reasons cited are retrospectively given because you have to justify the fact that you’ve somehow ended up without kids (which is what will happen if you don’t actively swim upstream). I don’t think anyone is actively making a choice with positive agency, they’re just following the crowd and then pretending it was a conscious decision.
With increasing divorce rates in Western countries is it any wonder many women do not want children. I am a boomer from the sixties and did not have children not because I didn’t want them but because I saw too many of my friends abandoned when the man decided having that responsibility was too heavy a trip to handle and walked out. The women were left with almost no financial support and back in the sixties and seventies women were not really welcome in the workforce. DIvorce and the loss of support from extended families might have more reason to contribute to millenials and gen z not wqanting to have children.
With increasing divorce rates in Western countries is it any wonder many women do not want children. I am a boomer from the sixties and did not have children not because I didn’t want them but because I saw too many of my friends abandoned when the man decided having that responsibility was too heavy a trip to handle and walked out. The women were left with almost no financial support and back in the sixties and seventies women were not really welcome in the workforce. DIvorce and the loss of support from extended families might have more reason to contribute to millenials and gen z not wqanting to have children.
Isn’t it even the slightest bit weird that (lower middle-class, working class) people who agree to parenthood tell themselves, well I’m sacrificing but the next generation will have it better, only for the next generation to grow up agree to parenthood and then tell themselves, well I’m sacrificing but the next generation will have it better? How does kicking the can of human flourishing perpetually down the road seem like a good idea?
Isn’t it even the slightest bit weird that (lower middle-class, working class) people who agree to parenthood tell themselves, well I’m sacrificing but the next generation will have it better, only for the next generation to grow up agree to parenthood and then tell themselves, well I’m sacrificing but the next generation will have it better? How does kicking the can of human flourishing perpetually down the road seem like a good idea?
Wake up and smell the forest fires. That’s the reason.
Youngsters are scared of arsonists?
Youngsters are scared of arsonists?
Wake up and smell the forest fires. That’s the reason.
Until around the time of the 2008 banking crisis and recession, and the following lost decade of growth in Europe (incl UK) due to the austerity policies, people expected life to get better going forward. Each generation would live a better life than the last. That is no longer the case. We are bombarded daily with apocalyptic prophesies of imminent climate catastrophe and (in the UK) have the highest tax burden since WW2. It’s not surprising to me that people don’t want children and if they want to hide out in childhood a bit longer, then I can’t really blame them.
Until around the time of the 2008 banking crisis and recession, and the following lost decade of growth in Europe (incl UK) due to the austerity policies, people expected life to get better going forward. Each generation would live a better life than the last. That is no longer the case. We are bombarded daily with apocalyptic prophesies of imminent climate catastrophe and (in the UK) have the highest tax burden since WW2. It’s not surprising to me that people don’t want children and if they want to hide out in childhood a bit longer, then I can’t really blame them.
They aren’t simply individualistic values, they are narcissistic, they don’t just lack community they lack depth.
One can be individualistic without being completely shallow – indeed many artists and writers seem to be just that. In some ways Gen Z are less individualistic: they are less independent and self reliant, for example. They expect the world to revolve round them, without the effort of having to make it spin.
It is narcissism on which Twenge focuses – and it’s narcissism that we are seeing.
It’s certainly a weird sort of individualism that is so afraid of being alone, or stepping out of line from the dominant values.
It’s certainly a weird sort of individualism that is so afraid of being alone, or stepping out of line from the dominant values.
They aren’t simply individualistic values, they are narcissistic, they don’t just lack community they lack depth.
One can be individualistic without being completely shallow – indeed many artists and writers seem to be just that. In some ways Gen Z are less individualistic: they are less independent and self reliant, for example. They expect the world to revolve round them, without the effort of having to make it spin.
It is narcissism on which Twenge focuses – and it’s narcissism that we are seeing.
There is a great deal to be said for making an early start to one’s working life and to one’s parenting life, and experiencing the vicissitudes of life as one does so. It is a process that used to be described as the “knocking off of rough corners”
I have always regarded further education as a questionable thing. I accept the academic benefit, but it has always smacked slightly of an avoidance of growing up.
The lessons that people learn at university can almost all be learned in an active workplace – along with many others, possibly even more useful, and normally these lessons are learned a great deal faster “out there in real life”.
As I grew up and became an employer at an early age, I normally found that my harder working and more successful employees were those who were coming straight from school. They seemed hungrier and with more to prove, and less self-satisfaction and self-entitlement.
As for “me time”. Well, it is otherwise known as self-indulgence. It tends to be a pretty negative thing, often even for the person who is self-indulging. But it is sold to people as “self care”. The word selfish springs to mind, I have to say.
The old saying was “spare the rod and spoil the child”. It is as true now as ever it was. If we are spared life’s rod, we are spoiled – and we see the result around us everywhere.
There is a great deal to be said for making an early start to one’s working life and to one’s parenting life, and experiencing the vicissitudes of life as one does so. It is a process that used to be described as the “knocking off of rough corners”
I have always regarded further education as a questionable thing. I accept the academic benefit, but it has always smacked slightly of an avoidance of growing up.
The lessons that people learn at university can almost all be learned in an active workplace – along with many others, possibly even more useful, and normally these lessons are learned a great deal faster “out there in real life”.
As I grew up and became an employer at an early age, I normally found that my harder working and more successful employees were those who were coming straight from school. They seemed hungrier and with more to prove, and less self-satisfaction and self-entitlement.
As for “me time”. Well, it is otherwise known as self-indulgence. It tends to be a pretty negative thing, often even for the person who is self-indulging. But it is sold to people as “self care”. The word selfish springs to mind, I have to say.
The old saying was “spare the rod and spoil the child”. It is as true now as ever it was. If we are spared life’s rod, we are spoiled – and we see the result around us everywhere.
There is a view that the separation of sex from reproduction, introduced by the contraceptive pill, has only upsides. Well, we’re carrying out a gigantic experiment to see if that’s true. So far, there seem to be a lot of downsides.
There is a view that the separation of sex from reproduction, introduced by the contraceptive pill, has only upsides. Well, we’re carrying out a gigantic experiment to see if that’s true. So far, there seem to be a lot of downsides.
Well let’s be honest! The corruption and greed and the NGOs who are running governments and pushing business to make life unbearable whilst trying to establish the WEF, UN and WHO as one world government, whilst keeping up the warmongering, creating food shortages on purpose through green initiatives like those in Netherlands, good shortages through war via Ukraine, all done on purpose to make people fear! Why would anyone want to bring someone in the world like this, run by psychopaths and paedophiles and people who want child mutilation! These people are sick, we either pivot and change the world back to a more kinder and harmonious and freerer
Society, otherwise people will just give up! There is no purpose as the wealthy are simply to greedy, and governments, big business are so corrupt that everyone is suffering.
Covid was a bio weapon and so were the shots, everyone still ill and suffering, there is no way back now. Lots of death and end of empires coming.
Well let’s be honest! The corruption and greed and the NGOs who are running governments and pushing business to make life unbearable whilst trying to establish the WEF, UN and WHO as one world government, whilst keeping up the warmongering, creating food shortages on purpose through green initiatives like those in Netherlands, good shortages through war via Ukraine, all done on purpose to make people fear! Why would anyone want to bring someone in the world like this, run by psychopaths and paedophiles and people who want child mutilation! These people are sick, we either pivot and change the world back to a more kinder and harmonious and freerer
Society, otherwise people will just give up! There is no purpose as the wealthy are simply to greedy, and governments, big business are so corrupt that everyone is suffering.
Covid was a bio weapon and so were the shots, everyone still ill and suffering, there is no way back now. Lots of death and end of empires coming.
Childless couples (rarely married) have been pushed since the 60s, all in the name of depopulation. The introduction of birth control and abortion while pushing for commitmentless sex, and birth control and sex ed to younger kids (as early as 6) in schools in the US starts the process at earlier ages. Now the trans movement with gender changing surgery and hormone blockers puts the icing on the cake of the movement. Once puberty is blocked it cannot take place. The result? more childless women.
Suzannah, please get off Twitter you fossil, (1–2%) in the U.S. identify as transgender, whether you accept it or not gender dysphoria is real. Stop pushing your Stone Age views onto everyone else, it’s dystopian and regressive.
Suzannah, please get off Twitter you fossil, (1–2%) in the U.S. identify as transgender, whether you accept it or not gender dysphoria is real. Stop pushing your Stone Age views onto everyone else, it’s dystopian and regressive.
Childless couples (rarely married) have been pushed since the 60s, all in the name of depopulation. The introduction of birth control and abortion while pushing for commitmentless sex, and birth control and sex ed to younger kids (as early as 6) in schools in the US starts the process at earlier ages. Now the trans movement with gender changing surgery and hormone blockers puts the icing on the cake of the movement. Once puberty is blocked it cannot take place. The result? more childless women.
Wealth and commercialism have much to answer for (Freedom is Slavery) but Education must also be held to account, particularly the expansion of the universities.
Children used to become adults at 16, when they left school and got a job (not long before, it was 14). Thus they got married and procreated when the biology was right. Nowadays, adults enter the workplace in their mid 20s and are still paying debt into their mid 30s. They are way behind on the expensive housing market. If they’re then lucky enough to find someone who still wants them, they may settle down and save up for IVF treatment. If lucky, they may produce one or two offspring, but of course these are likely to have Special Needs due to the age of the parents.
However, if biology has closed the door and bolted it, a couple may consider adoption, after all there are plenty of people on benefits still producing children (in fact, the couple’s peers are already grandparents). Of course, these children will all be Special Needs, but society celebrates Special Needs anyway, and there is unlimited government money for them. The only problem is that adoption takes years of assessment and, if you happen to be of conventional colour, gender or class, you’re unlikely to meet the diversity targets for selection.
Wealth and commercialism have much to answer for (Freedom is Slavery) but Education must also be held to account, particularly the expansion of the universities.
Children used to become adults at 16, when they left school and got a job (not long before, it was 14). Thus they got married and procreated when the biology was right. Nowadays, adults enter the workplace in their mid 20s and are still paying debt into their mid 30s. They are way behind on the expensive housing market. If they’re then lucky enough to find someone who still wants them, they may settle down and save up for IVF treatment. If lucky, they may produce one or two offspring, but of course these are likely to have Special Needs due to the age of the parents.
However, if biology has closed the door and bolted it, a couple may consider adoption, after all there are plenty of people on benefits still producing children (in fact, the couple’s peers are already grandparents). Of course, these children will all be Special Needs, but society celebrates Special Needs anyway, and there is unlimited government money for them. The only problem is that adoption takes years of assessment and, if you happen to be of conventional colour, gender or class, you’re unlikely to meet the diversity targets for selection.
The phrase “To posh to push” , comes to mind
The phrase “you are a moron” also springs to mind.
Michael, obviously you’ve never had to push a watermelon out of your vagina, you absolute nimwit.
The phrase “you are a moron” also springs to mind.
Michael, obviously you’ve never had to push a watermelon out of your vagina, you absolute nimwit.
The phrase “To posh to push” , comes to mind